Hi Dr. Tisby! I’m a Footnotes subscriber and I just finished listening to this last episode of the White Nation Under God series. The whole series has been so incredible and informative!! Thank you so much! I wonder if you might be willing to go into more depth in a future episode or article about how conservatism (like Rev. Armstrong described) can lead to an embrace or acceptance of White Christian Nationalism. It would be helpful to understand more clearly how the two are directly connected. Thank you!
It’s not saying there’s a 1:1 correlation between political conservatism and white Christian nationalism. But U.S. conservatism and white Christian nationalism have a synergy and coherence (on purpose via the Religious Right, Moral Majority, etc.) that makes them frequent partners.
It’s funny, as I think about my story above, especially the power of my dad’s example to me, after more reflections on my words above, I see I am really missing a big point. I haven’t escaped the toxicity. I still feel it and deal with it every day. I was part of the problem, even as I felt like I saw through the problem.
I was a small group leader in that church I left. So many of my spiritual habits, including my sense of calling and self-justifications for how I set my goals, were and are wrapped up in either protecting or defending elements of white Christian nationalism, especially the theological books and ideas around the doctrines of grace those churches taught. There was a ton of legalism in that church masked as humility, and the baggage people have carried from the failed experiment of Sovereign Grace Ministries is truly multi-generational.
It sucks to think about. I am glad I left, but that toxicity and presumption of spiritual superiority still lives in me and comes out through my own toxicity. It’s an every day fight, played out in my anxiety levels and my communication patterns.
This discussion really spoke to me today about all of this, and it says what I’m trying to get at far better than I can now.
Jamar! I appreciate this episode in your entire thrust here.
I thought about how to respond, because I didn’t “escape” exactly. But I did grow up in and raise my kids in two versions of post-Reagan evangelical communities with dominant GOP leanings, and in that white Christian nationalist elements had room to grow.
These “elements” are not extremist people, which makes it extra interesting. These are normal people who have believed some Biblical things, but without strong discernment. For example, the theological idea that the gospel evens out all sins and makes every sin equally evil before God totally nullifies the nuanced thinking needed to see these elements in their communities and battle racism broadly. I mean, systemic racism isn’t something this reductionist worldview lets them get their intellectual arms around.
But I do think the escape narrative you’ve raised is great. In that sense, my dad made a way for me to escape as a kid, before ever getting sucked into this kind of thinking. He worked in a large county government as the Director of Juvenile Court Services, and his role forced him to work with social workers, law-enforcement, judges, Families, and ultimately at risk youth.
He had been in the Catholic seminary, but when he left that as a young man to go to college, he felt called to study social work and help people who need it most. For him that meant setting up halfway houses in the court system to keep at risk youth out of the permanent justice system.
I love that this WNUG episode with Chuck focused on the strategic use of our jobs to make a difference for Christ in the lives of others as we pursue excellence at work. For my father, he taught me the subtleties and nuances of faithfulness to the law, and to combating disproportionality against blacks and other minorities in the justice system. He was like a Maestro and showed me how to do it.
He learned to balance (1) arguments for the protection of society from at-risk youth, with (2) arguments for the protection of at-risk youth from the permanent justice system. He worked out those arguments on paper but mostly in private, through loving relationships.
It wasn’t until his untimely sudden death that I heard a full range of stories of this, but he did clue me in as a kid.
I credit that example for largely forming the perspective and discernment I developed naturally, without having to pull a dramatic escape. Now, as a father and professional, I can build on his legacy.
Back to your escape question, his example made it easy for me to have many Black and minority friends, and so many of them made me family. All this made it pretty easy to spot white Christian nationalism, along with other insular biases in evangelical communities, for example, the kind that protect sex abusers. 
So instead of an escape, when it was clear to me and my wife that these biases dominated the last church I attended, it was easy to pull up the tent pegs and dip out.
Hi Dr. Tisby! I’m a Footnotes subscriber and I just finished listening to this last episode of the White Nation Under God series. The whole series has been so incredible and informative!! Thank you so much! I wonder if you might be willing to go into more depth in a future episode or article about how conservatism (like Rev. Armstrong described) can lead to an embrace or acceptance of White Christian Nationalism. It would be helpful to understand more clearly how the two are directly connected. Thank you!
It’s not saying there’s a 1:1 correlation between political conservatism and white Christian nationalism. But U.S. conservatism and white Christian nationalism have a synergy and coherence (on purpose via the Religious Right, Moral Majority, etc.) that makes them frequent partners.
It’s funny, as I think about my story above, especially the power of my dad’s example to me, after more reflections on my words above, I see I am really missing a big point. I haven’t escaped the toxicity. I still feel it and deal with it every day. I was part of the problem, even as I felt like I saw through the problem.
I was a small group leader in that church I left. So many of my spiritual habits, including my sense of calling and self-justifications for how I set my goals, were and are wrapped up in either protecting or defending elements of white Christian nationalism, especially the theological books and ideas around the doctrines of grace those churches taught. There was a ton of legalism in that church masked as humility, and the baggage people have carried from the failed experiment of Sovereign Grace Ministries is truly multi-generational.
It sucks to think about. I am glad I left, but that toxicity and presumption of spiritual superiority still lives in me and comes out through my own toxicity. It’s an every day fight, played out in my anxiety levels and my communication patterns.
This discussion really spoke to me today about all of this, and it says what I’m trying to get at far better than I can now.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-disrupters-faith-changing-culture/id1495107302?i=1000586124890
Jemar! Sorry. Darn voice-to-text!!
Jamar! I appreciate this episode in your entire thrust here.
I thought about how to respond, because I didn’t “escape” exactly. But I did grow up in and raise my kids in two versions of post-Reagan evangelical communities with dominant GOP leanings, and in that white Christian nationalist elements had room to grow.
These “elements” are not extremist people, which makes it extra interesting. These are normal people who have believed some Biblical things, but without strong discernment. For example, the theological idea that the gospel evens out all sins and makes every sin equally evil before God totally nullifies the nuanced thinking needed to see these elements in their communities and battle racism broadly. I mean, systemic racism isn’t something this reductionist worldview lets them get their intellectual arms around.
But I do think the escape narrative you’ve raised is great. In that sense, my dad made a way for me to escape as a kid, before ever getting sucked into this kind of thinking. He worked in a large county government as the Director of Juvenile Court Services, and his role forced him to work with social workers, law-enforcement, judges, Families, and ultimately at risk youth.
He had been in the Catholic seminary, but when he left that as a young man to go to college, he felt called to study social work and help people who need it most. For him that meant setting up halfway houses in the court system to keep at risk youth out of the permanent justice system.
I love that this WNUG episode with Chuck focused on the strategic use of our jobs to make a difference for Christ in the lives of others as we pursue excellence at work. For my father, he taught me the subtleties and nuances of faithfulness to the law, and to combating disproportionality against blacks and other minorities in the justice system. He was like a Maestro and showed me how to do it.
He learned to balance (1) arguments for the protection of society from at-risk youth, with (2) arguments for the protection of at-risk youth from the permanent justice system. He worked out those arguments on paper but mostly in private, through loving relationships.
It wasn’t until his untimely sudden death that I heard a full range of stories of this, but he did clue me in as a kid.
I credit that example for largely forming the perspective and discernment I developed naturally, without having to pull a dramatic escape. Now, as a father and professional, I can build on his legacy.
Back to your escape question, his example made it easy for me to have many Black and minority friends, and so many of them made me family. All this made it pretty easy to spot white Christian nationalism, along with other insular biases in evangelical communities, for example, the kind that protect sex abusers. 
So instead of an escape, when it was clear to me and my wife that these biases dominated the last church I attended, it was easy to pull up the tent pegs and dip out.